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Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project - health issues & project overview

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  • John R Carpenter
    Hello List! I was recently asked off list some questions about the Carpenter Cousins Project. They asked for a clarification of health issues that can be seen
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 28
      Hello List!
       
      I was recently asked off list some questions about the Carpenter Cousins Project. They asked for a clarification of health issues that can be seen on Y-DNA tests and about the project itself.
       
      The following is what I wrote to them.
       
      Often when I help people with their Carpenter genealogy, I am frequently able to help resolve their genealogical line back to an immigrant. The Carpenter Cousins Project supports the genealogical research that backs up the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project. See:  http://carpentercousins.com/
       
      Y-DNA markers rarely indicate health or medical issues. For example. Null values or missing DYS markers where the Y-DNA marker value is listed as a numerical zero ( 0 ) often indicates sterility. This of course is after confirming the lab results. The Carpenter Cousins Project has had only one (1) such result in over 400 Y-DNA tests.
       
      DNA tests that can focus on medical issues are often part of autosomal DNA (atDNA) testing. See A) below for a brief on the different DNA tests.
       
      One of the goals of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project is to help sort out the various Carpenter/Zimmerman lineages using genetic Y-DNA tests. For example, Many lines fraudulently documented in the past has been straightened out using Y-DNA testing. And many incomplete lineages have been resolved. This last does not mean we are one hundred percent (100%) successful. We list several lineages as incomplete or unattached in our various groups. These are those who match genetically but who can not, for one reason or the other confirm their lineage back to the groups ancestor. Please see our Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project main page and lineage page for more details. http://carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm and http://carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm
       
      It is important to know that we have over 107 different Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA genetic profiles or fingerprints on file in some 35 organized and two other general non-matching lineage groups. This means there is no single common ancestor within the genealogical time period (say the last 750 years) for all of these Carpenter Cousins. Many Zimmermans (older German word for Carpenter) came from Europe then Anglicized their name to Carpenter. Many carrying the variant names such as Carpender(dar), Charpentier, Carpentier, Carpentero and similar names did the same thing as the Zimmermans. But, some did not.  Alternate names for Zimmerman(n) include, but are not limited to, Simmerman and Zim(m)er. This is why the project is called Carpenter Cousins!
       
      Genetic genealogy, using a Y-DNA test, is often used due to road blocks or genealogical dead ends. And to confirm the genealogical lineage by matching others on the same line genetically.
       
      Road blocks are those points in the lineage where one can not resolve who is whom in the paper trail. This could be because of a dearth of names or an over abundance of names. A Y-DNA test result could link you genetically to a known Carpenter/Zimmerman lineage. Then reverse genealogy is applied using geographic time to place those Carpenters/Zimmermans where your lineage ends.
       
      Ideally, one gets a match breaking the road block. This often works, but it takes work and patience. And occasionally you get tantalizingly close, but can not confirm the exact relationship. For example, Y-DNA can not tell which of several sons or the father you descend from. Why? Because the Y-DNA is passed virtually unchanged from father to son. This is why we sometimes will place qualifiers on our posted lineages and still have unattached lineages.
       
      One of the goals of genetic genealogy is triangulation. This is simply person A matching person B genetically then comparing their paper trail genealogy to determine the most common ancestor (MRCA). When this is done we have a genetic and genealogical match. It is a check recheck of the data. See B) below.
       
      When we have a genealogical match but not a genetic match this is often a sign of a non-paternal event (NPE).  A NPE is a formal or informal adoption of DNA into a lineage. Quite often this is as simple as a widow with a young child remarrying and the child adopts the step-fathers surname. It can also be a sign of infidelity or a rape. On occasion it could also be a sign of a genealogical issue.
       
      Conversely, a genetic match without a genealogical match could indicate a paper trail error. This is often found from copying unconfirmed or garbage genealogy off the internet. Please remember that genealogy without good documentation has a higher probability of error regardless of how many times it is repeated on the internet!
       
      Please look over our Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project lineage pages. And if you have any questions, please let me know.
       
      John R. Carpenter
      La Mesa, CA USA
      Carpenter Cousins Project
      http://carpentercousins.com

      Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project
      http://www.carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm

      Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project lineage page
      http://www.carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm
       
      PS See also C) and G) below.
       
      A)

      There are different types of DNA tests. And some companies only do one type of test while companies like FTDNA offer many types of tests.

       

      Y-DNA Tests 

      As you know the Y Chromosome is passed from father to son virtually unchanged over the generations. This makes it ideal for surname testing.

      When looking at a genealogical pedigree chart, the very top lineage is the paternal line and represents Y-DNA heritage. This is the father’s father’s line.

      Many companies used to have Y-DNA tests, but now only a few provide it. See comparison chart link below.  And these companies test some but not all of the same DYS markers. And a few use different values (numbers) for the same DYS marker. Knowing when the test was done and by whom will allow us to convert the values into a standard format.

      Y-DNA tests come in different sizes like 12, 25, 37, 67, 111. Generally speaking the more markers the higher the resolution or more markers to compare to. In general, one should consider 37 markers as the starting level.

      See: http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_testing_comparison_chart

       

       

      Mitochondrial DNA tests

      Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is passed from the mother to her children, but only her daughters can pass it down to the next generation. Like Y-DNA this type of DNA is passed down virtually unchanged over the generations.

      When looking at a genealogical pedigree chart, the very bottom lineage is the maternal line and represents mtDNA heritage. This is your mothers mothers DNA.  Traditionally the female assumes a married name each generation which makes it harder to track genealogically.

      MtDNA is tested in Hyper Variable Regions often called HVR1, HVR2 & HVR3. A complete mtDNA test is referred to as mtFull at FTDNA.

      See comparison chart at: http://isogg.org/wiki/MtDNA_testing_comparison_chart

       

       

      Autosomal DNA Tests

      Ancestry and 23andMe focus on autosomal DNA (atDNA)  FTDNA has a similar test called Family Finder.  Most people use these tests to see their ethnic heritages. So much European, so much Middle Eastern, et cetera.

      23andMe also uses atDNA type testing for medical genetic warning type tests as for Cystic Fibrosis, Sickle Cell Anemia, Hereditary Hearing Loss and et cetera.

      Some use it to compare DNA fragments to others for cousin similarity up to about 5 generations.

      On a genealogical pedigree chart atDNA represents all your ancestry. You share 50% of your DNA from each parent, 25% from each grandparent, then 12.5% by the next generation followed by 6.25%, 3.125%, 1.5625% and further divided numbers back into time.  

      If you are surnamed Carpenter, any cousin match most likely will not be a Carpenter, but from one of your other ancestors. For example, at 5 generations the likely cousin match will be a Carpenter is 1/16 (one sixteenth),

      To see the differences between these atDNA testing companies, please go to the following link.

      http://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart

       

       

      SNP Tests – Big Y

      Single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP pronounced Snip) testing is a shotgun approach toward the Y-Chromosome.  Most Y-DNA tests can estimate the basic haplogroup. SNP testing confirms the haplotyping of the Haplogroup. FTDNA calls theirs The Big Y. See the link for comparisons between the different companies who provide this type test.

      http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_SNP_testing_chart

       

      Are there other types of DNA tests?  Yes. But the ones above are the most common ones used in genealogy.

       

      B)

      Triangulation – a goal of genetic genealogy

      In genetic genealogy we use triangulation. Think of a triangle. Genetic triangulation is rather simple. /_\

      Person A & B match genetically and that forms the base of the triangle. _

      Person A has a paper trail (genealogy) that goes back in time. /

      Person B has a paper trail that goes back in time. \

      The top of the triangle is the MRCA or most recent common ancestor.

       

      Person A is who you are testing. Some living biological male 2nd, 3rd or better cousin could be Person B. The most common shared ancestor is the MRCA.

      If the genetics of Person A & Person B match and the paper trail goes to the MRCA, then this helps prove they are related both genealogically and genetically. This is the goal of genetic genealogy. When this is repeated several times back to a common ancestor, we then can recreate the Y-DNA markers of that ancestor. All without digging them up!

      See more at:  http://isogg.org/wiki/Triangulation

       

      For many groups they have a recognizable common ancestor.  For Group 2 (of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project) it is the immigrant William Carpenter b. abt 1610 in England.  With triangulation we have re-created his genetic profile or fingerprint. The same goes for Group 3 and a few other groups.

       

       

      C)

      We have a general discussion, query and help request page with the Carpenter Rootsweb email list. See the following link to join it or to search past discussions. It can be slow at times.

      http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/surname/c/carpenter.html

       

      We also have a FTDNA X-Site that has only FTDNA tested results.  Unfortunately, they do not allow us to add non-FTDNA member results to this page.  See:

      https://www.familytreedna.com/public/carpenter%20cousins%20%20dna/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

       

      G)

      Here are a few helpful links regarding DNA and common DNA terms.

       

      A glossary of basic DNA terms can be found at:  http://www.kerchner.com/books/glossary.pdf

       

      The FTDNA version is at: https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/glossary/

       

      General stuff about DNA - https://www.genome.gov/25520880/deoxyribonucleic-acid-dna-fact-sheet/deoxyribonucleic-acid-dna-fact-sheet/

      See also:  http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/introduction-what-is-dna-6579978

       

      FTDNA info on Y-DNA testing:  https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/

    • Jim Carpenter
      John – I’ve lost the bubble. Since I am a Carpenter only by the stroke of a pen, am I in the general lineage anywhere? Jim From:
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 28

        John –

         

        I’ve lost the bubble.  Since I am a Carpenter only by the stroke of a pen, am I in the general lineage anywhere?

         

        Jim

         

        From: CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:59 AM
        To: Rootsweb Carpenter; CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [CarpenterCousins] Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project - health issues & project overview

         

         

        Hello List!

         

        I was recently asked off list some questions about the Carpenter Cousins Project. They asked for a clarification of health issues that can be seen on Y-DNA tests and about the project itself.

         

        The following is what I wrote to them.

         

        Often when I help people with their Carpenter genealogy, I am frequently able to help resolve their genealogical line back to an immigrant. The Carpenter Cousins Project supports the genealogical research that backs up the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project. See:  http://carpentercousins.com/

         

        Y-DNA markers rarely indicate health or medical issues. For example. Null values or missing DYS markers where the Y-DNA marker value is listed as a numerical zero ( 0 ) often indicates sterility. This of course is after confirming the lab results. The Carpenter Cousins Project has had only one (1) such result in over 400 Y-DNA tests.

         

        DNA tests that can focus on medical issues are often part of autosomal DNA (atDNA) testing. See A) below for a brief on the different DNA tests.

         

        One of the goals of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project is to help sort out the various Carpenter/Zimmerman lineages using genetic Y-DNA tests. For example, Many lines fraudulently documented in the past has been straightened out using Y-DNA testing. And many incomplete lineages have been resolved. This last does not mean we are one hundred percent (100%) successful. We list several lineages as incomplete or unattached in our various groups. These are those who match genetically but who can not, for one reason or the other confirm their lineage back to the groups ancestor. Please see our Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project main page and lineage page for more details. http://carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm and http://carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm

         

        It is important to know that we have over 107 different Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA genetic profiles or fingerprints on file in some 35 organized and two other general non-matching lineage groups. This means there is no single common ancestor within the genealogical time period (say the last 750 years) for all of these Carpenter Cousins. Many Zimmermans (older German word for Carpenter) came from Europe then Anglicized their name to Carpenter. Many carrying the variant names such as Carpender(dar), Charpentier, Carpentier, Carpentero and similar names did the same thing as the Zimmermans. But, some did not.  Alternate names for Zimmerman(n) include, but are not limited to, Simmerman and Zim(m)er. This is why the project is called Carpenter Cousins!

         

        Genetic genealogy, using a Y-DNA test, is often used due to road blocks or genealogical dead ends. And to confirm the genealogical lineage by matching others on the same line genetically.

         

        Road blocks are those points in the lineage where one can not resolve who is whom in the paper trail. This could be because of a dearth of names or an over abundance of names. A Y-DNA test result could link you genetically to a known Carpenter/Zimmerman lineage. Then reverse genealogy is applied using geographic time to place those Carpenters/Zimmermans where your lineage ends.

         

        Ideally, one gets a match breaking the road block. This often works, but it takes work and patience. And occasionally you get tantalizingly close, but can not confirm the exact relationship. For example, Y-DNA can not tell which of several sons or the father you descend from. Why? Because the Y-DNA is passed virtually unchanged from father to son. This is why we sometimes will place qualifiers on our posted lineages and still have unattached lineages.

         

        One of the goals of genetic genealogy is triangulation. This is simply person A matching person B genetically then comparing their paper trail genealogy to determine the most common ancestor (MRCA). When this is done we have a genetic and genealogical match. It is a check recheck of the data. See B) below.

         

        When we have a genealogical match but not a genetic match this is often a sign of a non-paternal event (NPE).  A NPE is a formal or informal adoption of DNA into a lineage. Quite often this is as simple as a widow with a young child remarrying and the child adopts the step-fathers surname. It can also be a sign of infidelity or a rape. On occasion it could also be a sign of a genealogical issue.

         

        Conversely, a genetic match without a genealogical match could indicate a paper trail error. This is often found from copying unconfirmed or garbage genealogy off the internet. Please remember that genealogy without good documentation has a higher probability of error regardless of how many times it is repeated on the internet!

         

        Please look over our Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project lineage pages. And if you have any questions, please let me know.

         

        John R. Carpenter
        La Mesa, CA USA
        Carpenter Cousins Project
        http://carpentercousins.com


        Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project
        http://www.carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm

        Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project lineage page
        http://www.carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm

         

        PS See also C) and G) below.

         

        A)

        There are different types of DNA tests. And some companies only do one type of test while companies like FTDNA offer many types of tests.

         

        Y-DNA Tests 

        As you know the Y Chromosome is passed from father to son virtually unchanged over the generations. This makes it ideal for surname testing.

        When looking at a genealogical pedigree chart, the very top lineage is the paternal line and represents Y-DNA heritage. This is the father’s father’s line.

        Many companies used to have Y-DNA tests, but now only a few provide it. See comparison chart link below.  And these companies test some but not all of the same DYS markers. And a few use different values (numbers) for the same DYS marker. Knowing when the test was done and by whom will allow us to convert the values into a standard format.

        Y-DNA tests come in different sizes like 12, 25, 37, 67, 111. Generally speaking the more markers the higher the resolution or more markers to compare to. In general, one should consider 37 markers as the starting level.

        See: http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_testing_comparison_chart

         

         

        Mitochondrial DNA tests

        Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is passed from the mother to her children, but only her daughters can pass it down to the next generation. Like Y-DNA this type of DNA is passed down virtually unchanged over the generations.

        When looking at a genealogical pedigree chart, the very bottom lineage is the maternal line and represents mtDNA heritage. This is your mothers mothers DNA.  Traditionally the female assumes a married name each generation which makes it harder to track genealogically.

        MtDNA is tested in Hyper Variable Regions often called HVR1, HVR2 & HVR3. A complete mtDNA test is referred to as mtFull at FTDNA.

        See comparison chart at: http://isogg.org/wiki/MtDNA_testing_comparison_chart

         

         

        Autosomal DNA Tests

        Ancestry and 23andMe focus on autosomal DNA (atDNA)  FTDNA has a similar test called Family Finder.  Most people use these tests to see their ethnic heritages. So much European, so much Middle Eastern, et cetera.

        23andMe also uses atDNA type testing for medical genetic warning type tests as for Cystic Fibrosis, Sickle Cell Anemia, Hereditary Hearing Loss and et cetera.

        Some use it to compare DNA fragments to others for cousin similarity up to about 5 generations.

        On a genealogical pedigree chart atDNA represents all your ancestry. You share 50% of your DNA from each parent, 25% from each grandparent, then 12.5% by the next generation followed by 6.25%, 3.125%, 1.5625% and further divided numbers back into time.  

        If you are surnamed Carpenter, any cousin match most likely will not be a Carpenter, but from one of your other ancestors. For example, at 5 generations the likely cousin match will be a Carpenter is 1/16 (one sixteenth),

        To see the differences between these atDNA testing companies, please go to the following link.

        http://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart

         

         

        SNP Tests – Big Y

        Single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP pronounced Snip) testing is a shotgun approach toward the Y-Chromosome.  Most Y-DNA tests can estimate the basic haplogroup. SNP testing confirms the haplotyping of the Haplogroup. FTDNA calls theirs The Big Y. See the link for comparisons between the different companies who provide this type test.

        http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_SNP_testing_chart

         

        Are there other types of DNA tests?  Yes. But the ones above are the most common ones used in genealogy.

         

        B)

        Triangulation – a goal of genetic genealogy

        In genetic genealogy we use triangulation. Think of a triangle. Genetic triangulation is rather simple. /_\

        Person A & B match genetically and that forms the base of the triangle. _

        Person A has a paper trail (genealogy) that goes back in time. /

        Person B has a paper trail that goes back in time. \

        The top of the triangle is the MRCA or most recent common ancestor.

         

        Person A is who you are testing. Some living biological male 2nd, 3rd or better cousin could be Person B. The most common shared ancestor is the MRCA.

        If the genetics of Person A & Person B match and the paper trail goes to the MRCA, then this helps prove they are related both genealogically and genetically. This is the goal of genetic genealogy. When this is repeated several times back to a common ancestor, we then can recreate the Y-DNA markers of that ancestor. All without digging them up!

        See more at:  http://isogg.org/wiki/Triangulation

         

        For many groups they have a recognizable common ancestor.  For Group 2 (of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project) it is the immigrant William Carpenter b. abt 1610 in England.  With triangulation we have re-created his genetic profile or fingerprint. The same goes for Group 3 and a few other groups.

         

         

        C)

        We have a general discussion, query and help request page with the Carpenter Rootsweb email list. See the following link to join it or to search past discussions. It can be slow at times.

        http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/surname/c/carpenter.html

         

        We also have a FTDNA X-Site that has only FTDNA tested results.  Unfortunately, they do not allow us to add non-FTDNA member results to this page.  See:

        https://www.familytreedna.com/public/carpenter%20cousins%20%20dna/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

         

        G)

        Here are a few helpful links regarding DNA and common DNA terms.

         

        A glossary of basic DNA terms can be found at:  http://www.kerchner.com/books/glossary.pdf

         

        The FTDNA version is at: https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/glossary/

         

        General stuff about DNA - https://www.genome.gov/25520880/deoxyribonucleic-acid-dna-fact-sheet/deoxyribonucleic-acid-dna-fact-sheet/

        See also:  http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/introduction-what-is-dna-6579978

         

        FTDNA info on Y-DNA testing:  https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/

      • John R Carpenter
        Jim, A Carpenter is a Carpenter is a Carpenter. The same goes for Zimmerman or Keppeler. We honor the name we carry. You are unique because you know where your
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 28
          Jim,
           
          A Carpenter is a Carpenter is a Carpenter. The same goes for Zimmerman or Keppeler. We honor the name we carry.
           
          You are unique because you know where your Carpenter Y-DNA surname lineage started!
           
          Most of the rest of us have no clue when or where it started.
           
          Best Wishes,
           
          John R. Carpenter
          La Mesa, CA USA
          Carpenter Cousins Project
          http://carpentercousins.com
           
          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:37 PM
          Subject: RE: [CarpenterCousins] Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project - health issues & project overview
           
           

          John –

          I’ve lost the bubble.  Since I am a Carpenter only by the stroke of a pen, am I in the general lineage anywhere?

          Jim

          From: CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com]
          Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:59 AM
          To: Rootsweb Carpenter; CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [CarpenterCousins] Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project - health issues & project overview

           

          Hello List!

          <SNIP>
        • Jim Carpenter
          John – Thanks for responding, but none of these images came through. Jim From: CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com]
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 28

            John –

             

            Thanks for responding, but none of these images came through.

             

            Jim

             

            From: CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com]
            Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:37 PM
            To: CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [CarpenterCousins] Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project - health issues & project overview

             

             

            John –

             

            I’ve lost the bubble.  Since I am a Carpenter only by the stroke of a pen, am I in the general lineage anywhere?

             

            Jim

             

            From: CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com]
            Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:59 AM
            To: Rootsweb Carpenter; CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [CarpenterCousins] Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project - health issues & project overview

             

             

            Hello List!

             

            I was recently asked off list some questions about the Carpenter Cousins Project. They asked for a clarification of health issues that can be seen on Y-DNA tests and about the project itself.

             

            The following is what I wrote to them.

             

            Often when I help people with their Carpenter genealogy, I am frequently able to help resolve their genealogical line back to an immigrant. The Carpenter Cousins Project supports the genealogical research that backs up the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project. See:  http://carpentercousins.com/

             

            Y-DNA markers rarely indicate health or medical issues. For example. Null values or missing DYS markers where the Y-DNA marker value is listed as a numerical zero ( 0 ) often indicates sterility. This of course is after confirming the lab results. The Carpenter Cousins Project has had only one (1) such result in over 400 Y-DNA tests.

             

            DNA tests that can focus on medical issues are often part of autosomal DNA (atDNA) testing. See A) below for a brief on the different DNA tests.

             

            One of the goals of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project is to help sort out the various Carpenter/Zimmerman lineages using genetic Y-DNA tests. For example, Many lines fraudulently documented in the past has been straightened out using Y-DNA testing. And many incomplete lineages have been resolved. This last does not mean we are one hundred percent (100%) successful. We list several lineages as incomplete or unattached in our various groups. These are those who match genetically but who can not, for one reason or the other confirm their lineage back to the groups ancestor. Please see our Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project main page and lineage page for more details. http://carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm and http://carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm

             

            It is important to know that we have over 107 different Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA genetic profiles or fingerprints on file in some 35 organized and two other general non-matching lineage groups. This means there is no single common ancestor within the genealogical time period (say the last 750 years) for all of these Carpenter Cousins. Many Zimmermans (older German word for Carpenter) came from Europe then Anglicized their name to Carpenter. Many carrying the variant names such as Carpender(dar), Charpentier, Carpentier, Carpentero and similar names did the same thing as the Zimmermans. But, some did not.  Alternate names for Zimmerman(n) include, but are not limited to, Simmerman and Zim(m)er. This is why the project is called Carpenter Cousins!

             

            Genetic genealogy, using a Y-DNA test, is often used due to road blocks or genealogical dead ends. And to confirm the genealogical lineage by matching others on the same line genetically.

             

            Road blocks are those points in the lineage where one can not resolve who is whom in the paper trail. This could be because of a dearth of names or an over abundance of names. A Y-DNA test result could link you genetically to a known Carpenter/Zimmerman lineage. Then reverse genealogy is applied using geographic time to place those Carpenters/Zimmermans where your lineage ends.

             

            Ideally, one gets a match breaking the road block. This often works, but it takes work and patience. And occasionally you get tantalizingly close, but can not confirm the exact relationship. For example, Y-DNA can not tell which of several sons or the father you descend from. Why? Because the Y-DNA is passed virtually unchanged from father to son. This is why we sometimes will place qualifiers on our posted lineages and still have unattached lineages.

             

            One of the goals of genetic genealogy is triangulation. This is simply person A matching person B genetically then comparing their paper trail genealogy to determine the most common ancestor (MRCA). When this is done we have a genetic and genealogical match. It is a check recheck of the data. See B) below.

             

            When we have a genealogical match but not a genetic match this is often a sign of a non-paternal event (NPE).  A NPE is a formal or informal adoption of DNA into a lineage. Quite often this is as simple as a widow with a young child remarrying and the child adopts the step-fathers surname. It can also be a sign of infidelity or a rape. On occasion it could also be a sign of a genealogical issue.

             

            Conversely, a genetic match without a genealogical match could indicate a paper trail error. This is often found from copying unconfirmed or garbage genealogy off the internet. Please remember that genealogy without good documentation has a higher probability of error regardless of how many times it is repeated on the internet!

             

            Please look over our Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project lineage pages. And if you have any questions, please let me know.

             

            John R. Carpenter
            La Mesa, CA USA
            Carpenter Cousins Project
            http://carpentercousins.com


            Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project
            http://www.carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm

            Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project lineage page
            http://www.carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm

             

            PS See also C) and G) below.

             

            A)

            There are different types of DNA tests. And some companies only do one type of test while companies like FTDNA offer many types of tests.

             

            Y-DNA Tests 

            As you know the Y Chromosome is passed from father to son virtually unchanged over the generations. This makes it ideal for surname testing.

            When looking at a genealogical pedigree chart, the very top lineage is the paternal line and represents Y-DNA heritage. This is the father’s father’s line.

            Many companies used to have Y-DNA tests, but now only a few provide it. See comparison chart link below.  And these companies test some but not all of the same DYS markers. And a few use different values (numbers) for the same DYS marker. Knowing when the test was done and by whom will allow us to convert the values into a standard format.

            Y-DNA tests come in different sizes like 12, 25, 37, 67, 111. Generally speaking the more markers the higher the resolution or more markers to compare to. In general, one should consider 37 markers as the starting level.

            See: http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_testing_comparison_chart

             

             

            Mitochondrial DNA tests

            Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is passed from the mother to her children, but only her daughters can pass it down to the next generation. Like Y-DNA this type of DNA is passed down virtually unchanged over the generations.

            When looking at a genealogical pedigree chart, the very bottom lineage is the maternal line and represents mtDNA heritage. This is your mothers mothers DNA.  Traditionally the female assumes a married name each generation which makes it harder to track genealogically.

            MtDNA is tested in Hyper Variable Regions often called HVR1, HVR2 & HVR3. A complete mtDNA test is referred to as mtFull at FTDNA.

            See comparison chart at: http://isogg.org/wiki/MtDNA_testing_comparison_chart

             

             

            Autosomal DNA Tests

            Ancestry and 23andMe focus on autosomal DNA (atDNA)  FTDNA has a similar test called Family Finder.  Most people use these tests to see their ethnic heritages. So much European, so much Middle Eastern, et cetera.

            23andMe also uses atDNA type testing for medical genetic warning type tests as for Cystic Fibrosis, Sickle Cell Anemia, Hereditary Hearing Loss and et cetera.

            Some use it to compare DNA fragments to others for cousin similarity up to about 5 generations.

            On a genealogical pedigree chart atDNA represents all your ancestry. You share 50% of your DNA from each parent, 25% from each grandparent, then 12.5% by the next generation followed by 6.25%, 3.125%, 1.5625% and further divided numbers back into time.  

            If you are surnamed Carpenter, any cousin match most likely will not be a Carpenter, but from one of your other ancestors. For example, at 5 generations the likely cousin match will be a Carpenter is 1/16 (one sixteenth),

            To see the differences between these atDNA testing companies, please go to the following link.

            http://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart

             

             

            SNP Tests – Big Y

            Single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP pronounced Snip) testing is a shotgun approach toward the Y-Chromosome.  Most Y-DNA tests can estimate the basic haplogroup. SNP testing confirms the haplotyping of the Haplogroup. FTDNA calls theirs The Big Y. See the link for comparisons between the different companies who provide this type test.

            http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_SNP_testing_chart

             

            Are there other types of DNA tests?  Yes. But the ones above are the most common ones used in genealogy.

             

            B)

            Triangulation – a goal of genetic genealogy

            In genetic genealogy we use triangulation. Think of a triangle. Genetic triangulation is rather simple. /_\

            Person A & B match genetically and that forms the base of the triangle. _

            Person A has a paper trail (genealogy) that goes back in time. /

            Person B has a paper trail that goes back in time. \

            The top of the triangle is the MRCA or most recent common ancestor.

             

            Person A is who you are testing. Some living biological male 2nd, 3rd or better cousin could be Person B. The most common shared ancestor is the MRCA.

            If the genetics of Person A & Person B match and the paper trail goes to the MRCA, then this helps prove they are related both genealogically and genetically. This is the goal of genetic genealogy. When this is repeated several times back to a common ancestor, we then can recreate the Y-DNA markers of that ancestor. All without digging them up!

            See more at:  http://isogg.org/wiki/Triangulation

             

            For many groups they have a recognizable common ancestor.  For Group 2 (of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project) it is the immigrant William Carpenter b. abt 1610 in England.  With triangulation we have re-created his genetic profile or fingerprint. The same goes for Group 3 and a few other groups.

             

             

            C)

            We have a general discussion, query and help request page with the Carpenter Rootsweb email list. See the following link to join it or to search past discussions. It can be slow at times.

            http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/surname/c/carpenter.html

             

            We also have a FTDNA X-Site that has only FTDNA tested results.  Unfortunately, they do not allow us to add non-FTDNA member results to this page.  See:

            https://www.familytreedna.com/public/carpenter%20cousins%20%20dna/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

             

            G)

            Here are a few helpful links regarding DNA and common DNA terms.

             

            A glossary of basic DNA terms can be found at:  http://www.kerchner.com/books/glossary.pdf

             

            The FTDNA version is at: https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/glossary/

             

            General stuff about DNA - https://www.genome.gov/25520880/deoxyribonucleic-acid-dna-fact-sheet/deoxyribonucleic-acid-dna-fact-sheet/

            See also:  http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/introduction-what-is-dna-6579978

             

            FTDNA info on Y-DNA testing:  https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/

          • John R Carpenter
            Jim, No attachments sent, just links. John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA Carpenter Cousins Project http://carpentercousins.com From: Jim Carpenter
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 29
              Jim,
               
              No attachments sent, just links.
               
              John R. Carpenter
              La Mesa, CA USA
              Carpenter Cousins Project
              http://carpentercousins.com
               
               
              Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:04 PM
              Subject: RE: [CarpenterCousins] Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project - health issues & project overview
               
               

              John –

              Thanks for responding, but none of these images came through.

              Jim

              <SNIP>

              From: CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com]
              Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 8:59 AM
              To: Rootsweb Carpenter; CarpenterCousins@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [CarpenterCousins] Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project - health issues & project overview

               

              Hello List!

              I was recently asked off list some questions about the Carpenter Cousins Project. They asked for a clarification of health issues that can be seen on Y-DNA tests and about the project itself.

              The following is what I wrote to them.

              Often when I help people with their Carpenter genealogy, I am frequently able to help resolve their genealogical line back to an immigrant. The Carpenter Cousins Project supports the genealogical research that backs up the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project. See:  http://carpentercousins.com/

              Y-DNA markers rarely indicate health or medical issues. For example. Null values or missing DYS markers where the Y-DNA marker value is listed as a numerical zero ( 0 ) COULD (not often) indicates sterility. This of course is after confirming the lab results. The Carpenter Cousins Project has had only one (1) such result in over 400 Y-DNA tests.

              DNA tests that can focus on medical issues are often part of autosomal DNA (atDNA) testing. See A) below for a brief on the different DNA tests.

              One of the goals of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project is to help sort out the various Carpenter/Zimmerman lineages using genetic Y-DNA tests. For example, Many lines fraudulently documented in the past has been straightened out using Y-DNA testing. And many incomplete lineages have been resolved. This last does not mean we are one hundred percent (100%) successful. We list several lineages as incomplete or unattached in our various groups. These are those who match genetically but who can not, for one reason or the other confirm their lineage back to the groups ancestor. Please see our Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project main page and lineage page for more details. http://carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm and http://carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm

              It is important to know that we have over 107 different Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA genetic profiles or fingerprints on file in some 35 organized and two other general non-matching lineage groups. This means there is no single common ancestor within the genealogical time period (say the last 750 years) for all of these Carpenter Cousins. Many Zimmermans (older German word for Carpenter) came from Europe then Anglicized their name to Carpenter. Many carrying the variant names such as Carpender(dar), Charpentier, Carpentier, Carpentero and similar names did the same thing as the Zimmermans. But, some did not.  Alternate names for Zimmerman(n) include, but are not limited to, Simmerman and Zim(m)er. This is why the project is called Carpenter Cousins!

              Genetic genealogy, using a Y-DNA test, is often used due to road blocks or genealogical dead ends. And to confirm the genealogical lineage by matching others on the same line genetically.

              Road blocks are those points in the lineage where one can not resolve who is whom in the paper trail. This could be because of a dearth of names or an over abundance of names. A Y-DNA test result could link you genetically to a known Carpenter/Zimmerman lineage. Then reverse genealogy is applied using geographic time to place those Carpenters/Zimmermans where your lineage ends.

              Ideally, one gets a match breaking the road block. This often works, but it takes work and patience. And occasionally you get tantalizingly close, but can not confirm the exact relationship. For example, Y-DNA can not tell which of several sons or the father you descend from. Why? Because the Y-DNA is passed virtually unchanged from father to son. This is why we sometimes will place qualifiers on our posted lineages and still have unattached lineages.

              One of the goals of genetic genealogy is triangulation. This is simply person A matching person B genetically then comparing their paper trail genealogy to determine the most common ancestor (MRCA). When this is done we have a genetic and genealogical match. It is a check recheck of the data. See B) below.

              When we have a genealogical match but not a genetic match this is often a sign of a non-paternal event (NPE).  A NPE is a formal or informal adoption of DNA into a lineage. Quite often this is as simple as a widow with a young child remarrying and the child adopts the step-fathers surname. It can also be a sign of infidelity or a rape. On occasion it could also be a sign of a genealogical issue.

              Conversely, a genetic match without a genealogical match could indicate a paper trail error. This is often found from copying unconfirmed or garbage genealogy off the internet. Please remember that genealogy without good documentation has a higher probability of error regardless of how many times it is repeated on the internet!

              Please look over our Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project lineage pages. And if you have any questions, please let me know.

              John R. Carpenter
              La Mesa, CA USA
              Carpenter Cousins Project
              http://carpentercousins.com


              Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project
              http://www.carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm

              Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project lineage page
              http://www.carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm

              PS See also C) and G) below.

              A)

              There are different types of DNA tests. And some companies only do one type of test while companies like FTDNA offer many types of tests.

              Y-DNA Tests 

              As you know the Y Chromosome is passed from father to son virtually unchanged over the generations. This makes it ideal for surname testing.

              When looking at a genealogical pedigree chart, the very top lineage is the paternal line and represents Y-DNA heritage. This is the father’s father’s line.

              Many companies used to have Y-DNA tests, but now only a few provide it. See comparison chart link below.  And these companies test some but not all of the same DYS markers. And a few use different values (numbers) for the same DYS marker. Knowing when the test was done and by whom will allow us to convert the values into a standard format.

              Y-DNA tests come in different sizes like 12, 25, 37, 67, 111. Generally speaking the more markers the higher the resolution or more markers to compare to. In general, one should consider 37 markers as the starting level.

              See: http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_testing_comparison_chart

              Mitochondrial DNA tests

              Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is passed from the mother to her children, but only her daughters can pass it down to the next generation. Like Y-DNA this type of DNA is passed down virtually unchanged over the generations.

              When looking at a genealogical pedigree chart, the very bottom lineage is the maternal line and represents mtDNA heritage. This is your mothers mothers DNA.  Traditionally the female assumes a married name each generation which makes it harder to track genealogically.

              MtDNA is tested in Hyper Variable Regions often called HVR1, HVR2 & HVR3. A complete mtDNA test is referred to as mtFull at FTDNA.

              See comparison chart at: http://isogg.org/wiki/MtDNA_testing_comparison_chart

              Autosomal DNA Tests

              Ancestry and 23andMe focus on autosomal DNA (atDNA)  FTDNA has a similar test called Family Finder.  Most people use these tests to see their ethnic heritages. So much European, so much Middle Eastern, et cetera.

              23andMe also uses atDNA type testing for medical genetic warning type tests as for Cystic Fibrosis, Sickle Cell Anemia, Hereditary Hearing Loss and et cetera.

              Some use it to compare DNA fragments to others for cousin similarity up to about 5 generations.

              On a genealogical pedigree chart atDNA represents all your ancestry. You share 50% of your DNA from each parent, 25% from each grandparent, then 12.5% by the next generation followed by 6.25%, 3.125%, 1.5625% and further divided numbers back into time.  

              If you are surnamed Carpenter, any cousin match most likely will not be a Carpenter, but from one of your other ancestors. For example, at 5 generations the likely cousin match will be a Carpenter is 1/16 (one sixteenth),

              To see the differences between these atDNA testing companies, please go to the following link.

              http://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart

              SNP Tests – Big Y

              Single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP pronounced Snip) testing is a shotgun approach toward the Y-Chromosome.  Most Y-DNA tests can estimate the basic haplogroup. SNP testing confirms the haplotyping of the Haplogroup. FTDNA calls theirs The Big Y. See the link for comparisons between the different companies who provide this type test.

              http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_SNP_testing_chart

               

              Are there other types of DNA tests?  Yes. But the ones above are the most common ones used in genealogy.

              B)

              Triangulation – a goal of genetic genealogy

              In genetic genealogy we use triangulation. Think of a triangle. Genetic triangulation is rather simple. /_\

              Person A & B match genetically and that forms the base of the triangle. _

              Person A has a paper trail (genealogy) that goes back in time. /

              Person B has a paper trail that goes back in time. \

              The top of the triangle is the MRCA or most recent common ancestor.

              Person A is who you are testing. Some living biological male 2nd, 3rd or better cousin could be Person B. The most common shared ancestor is the MRCA.

              If the genetics of Person A & Person B match and the paper trail goes to the MRCA, then this helps prove they are related both genealogically and genetically. This is the goal of genetic genealogy. When this is repeated several times back to a common ancestor, we then can recreate the Y-DNA markers of that ancestor. All without digging them up!

              See more at:  http://isogg.org/wiki/Triangulation

              For many groups they have a recognizable common ancestor.  For Group 2 (of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project) it is the immigrant William Carpenter b. abt 1610 in England.  With triangulation we have re-created his genetic profile or fingerprint. The same goes for Group 3 and a few other groups.

              C)

              We have a general discussion, query and help request page with the Carpenter Rootsweb email list. See the following link to join it or to search past discussions. It can be slow at times.

              http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/surname/c/carpenter.html

              We also have a FTDNA X-Site that has only FTDNA tested results.  Unfortunately, they do not allow us to add non-FTDNA member results to this page.  See:

              https://www.familytreedna.com/public/carpenter%20cousins%20%20dna/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

              G)

              Here are a few helpful links regarding DNA and common DNA terms.

              A glossary of basic DNA terms can be found at:  http://www.kerchner.com/books/glossary.pdf

              The FTDNA version is at: https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/glossary/

              General stuff about DNA - https://www.genome.gov/25520880/deoxyribonucleic-acid-dna-fact-sheet/deoxyribonucleic-acid-dna-fact-sheet/

              See also:  http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/introduction-what-is-dna-6579978

              FTDNA info on Y-DNA testing:  https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/y-dna-testing/

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